Interview script

Once it is not the objective of this work to discuss each case in particular, excerpts from the interviews were selected to stimulate theoretical discussion of topics relevant to the theme of the present study. In addition, for this theoretical discussion, I will draw on authors who have been very relevant in the discussion of racism (Jungian or otherwise). However, when discussing the psychic dynamics between analyst and patient (transference and countertransference), the approach will be that of analytical psychology.

Structural racism and stereotypes

A few years ago, I treated my first black patient. In the first session, as soon as I saw him, my immediate thought was: “If he can’t pay, I’ll give him a nice discount so he can stay.” This thought intrigued me for several weeks and was probably one of the motivations for the theme of this work.

For philosopher Silvio Almeida, there is no way to understand our relationships in contemporary society without the concepts of race and racism:

“Structural racism as an ideology, more than a conscious phenomenon, shapes the unconscious. In other words, racism does not depend on a conscious action to exist; ‘normal life and ‘affections’ are inexorably permeated by racism. Racism creates race and racialized subjects. And it constitutes an entire social imaginary that is complex and constantly reinforced by the media, the cultural industry and the educational system.” (^{Almeida, 2018}, p. 65)

Thus, much more than conscious choices, racism exists unconsciously, in all our relationships, through stereotypes that have been transmitted to us and categorized in our psyche for centuries.

What stereotypes about black people are unconsciously constellated in the psyche of a white analyst?

INTERVIEW 1: White male analyst on black patients

Question: Have you ever noticed any discomfort when treating a black patient?

Answer: Yes. There is something unsaid present in the care of a dark-skinned black patient. She had a very dark skin tone. It had an impact. I don’t see patients like that. I have two other black patients, but they are much lighter than her.

I saw her as a different person. She was very beautiful. She made an impact. Black and beautiful. Different from a beautiful white woman. She was an exotic beauty.

Q: What images, feelings and ideas did you experience in the countertransference of caring for black patients?

R: There’s a bit of colorism here, right? A dark-skinned black woman made me feel something. It was hard to get her out of this place that caught my attention. I even imagined that, in the waiting room, she would draw the attention of the other patients.

I don’t remember any images. But I asked myself: how did this African beauty end up in my office?

What images circulate in countertransference, when the analyst, treating a “black and beautiful” patient, perceives something “unsaid”, “that caused an impact on me”? I believe that such discomforts are feelings that we cannot name, images that are still unconscious, constellated in the countertransference.

A black and dark-skinned patient carries this meaning of “the Other”. We are not surprised to have only white patients at the reception desk. However, we would be uncomfortable if there were only black patients. A dark-skinned black patient causes surprise. Unconsciously, we validate white as the aesthetic, intellectual and moral norm.

It is important to emphasize that, although the color complex is related to an inferiority complex (structural racism positions black people in a position of inferiority), the analyst must be very attentive to the transference and countertransference so as not to reinforce/repeat this psychic dynamic, already imposed by structural racism, of which all black people are victims, on a daily basis.

The psychotherapeutic process and analytical listening

Some patients come to me because I am black and gay. I often hear that or “I end up feeling more comfortable” or that “the work flows better”.

This identification with a stereotypical and collective identity (being a part of the same racial group, being a part of the same sexual orientation group or both) can facilitate the establishment of an affectionate bond (positive transference and countertransference) necessary in the therapeutic process.

In this section, I would like to analyze the stages of the psychotherapeutic process, with the backdrop of a white analyst and a black patient. How does racism (as a cultural complex) interfere with the patient’s empathy towards the analyst, and vice versa?

INTERVIEW 2: White female analyst on black patients

Q: Have you ever noticed any discomfort when treating a black patient?

A: I’m trying to bring these images to light. A patient I’ve been seeing for a long time came to me, and we had a great connection. Strangely, with her, I thought I was embracing and understanding the symptoms as a story of the trauma we were working on — a recurring story of childhood abuse and she, a black woman. But, then, in a session, not about the trauma, but about a passion for a white man, I tried to bring the session to the understanding of childhood trauma and she cut me off: “Do you think everything remained in childhood?”

I discovered, at this time, that my listening had a wall.

In the social psychology clinic, we were in at college, I, a white psychologist, and two other black psychologists, realized that I never brought up issues of racial injury in the group discussion. And my other friends always did. Then I started to question how I was listening and began my own journey of racial literacy.

Q: What images, feelings and ideas did you experience in the countertransference of caring for black patients?

A: I have five slots for in my office dedicated to people without means to pay my full hour. They are mostly black people. I have found myself watching my words a lot. I have found myself trying to avoid touching on things that I thought might be too hurtful.

I felt tied down. It was like I was going to hurt her again. If I were black, I think it would be different.

The analyst describes moments of discomfort, “feeling tied down”, “being careful about her own speech”, so as not to hurt another black patient, and a distrust in relation to the analytic listening itself. These discomforts led her to begin a journey of racial literacy.

I believe that these situations, in clinical practice, are very common and lead us to be aware of the unconscious processes (transference and countertransference) that triggered them.

Schwartz-Salan (2021), calls the experience in the analytical encounter communitas (in addition to a communion or sense of community), as being the archetypal factor in the meeting between analyst and patient. For the author, this meeting builds an I-You relationship marked by a deep feeling of mutual respect, equality and interest, which makes the psychoanalytic environment special, favorable to genuine acceptance and transformation.

In the interview above, we still see the effects of the racial complex (which affects both black and white people, creating hierarchies) building a power relationship between analyst and patient: “Yes. A place of not feeling comfortable; me, a white psychologist, in front of a black patient. Did I have all that power to hurt her?”

In addition to working with dreams (the royal road to the unconscious) and active imagination, Jung highlights the analysis of transference and countertransference as a fundamental process in therapeutic work (Jung, 2012).

And, exploring the images of the alchemical text Rosarium Philosophorum, he comes to the conclusion that the symbolism of coniunctio — the image of the union of opposites — is the structural form underlying the transference/countertransference process (^{Jung, 2012}).

In this process, the unconscious images between analyst and patient need to be separated, removed from the state of participation mystique in which they are found and then integrated into the ego consciousness, to finally participate in the formation of a new consciousness closer to the Self (the hermaphrodite Self). This is the process of becoming aware of the unconscious contents in both the patient and the analyst. Such awareness depends on the analyst’s experience, being able to access the unconscious images that emerged in the countertransference (^{Schwartz-Salant, 2021}).

Regarding the content (and symptoms) about raciality (present in the psyche of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously), I believe that if the analyst cannot access his own images, he will continue in participation mystique with the patient and, therefore, hinder the therapeutic process of transformation. The lack of awareness of our own prejudices (cultural complexes, in general) prevents us from differentiating our own images of raciality and those of our patients.

Narcissistic pacts of whiteness

“If slavery left black people ‘deformed’, what is its legacy for white people? How can we understand that slavery left one group at a disadvantage and not understand that the other group has a structural advantage? When we look on the street and see only black beggars, we understand that this is the legacy of slavery. But when we see only white people in the boardrooms of companies or institutes, don’t we also think that this is the legacy of slavery for white people?” (^{Schucman, 2023}, p. 46)

If structural racism involves stereotypical images (conscious or unconscious) of black and white people, why is the discussion of racism solely the responsibility of black people? If the color complex makes black people feel inferior, how do white people who unconsciously receive these benefits act? What are the unconscious fantasies of hierarchy/power in the psyche of the white analyst in relation to the black person?

Critical whiteness studies aim to discuss the role of whiteness in maintaining structural racism. How does whiteness (as a power relation) act in the psychoanalytic environment?

INTERVIEW 3: White female analyst on black patients

Q: What images, feelings and ideas did you experience in the countertransference of caring for black patients?

A: I remember a black patient who started seeing me when she was thirteen or fifteen years old and then came back to be my patient again when she was thirty years old. When she came back for the second time, she had questions about her mother’s serious illness, who later died. She refused to go to the funeral. I made myself available and ended up going to the funeral with her; and it was an incredible experience: the mother in colorful, party clothes, and her mother’s favorite songs being played. It impacted me to see this black family with a different culture (at the funeral) than I was used to. While treating this young woman, I sometimes remembered that, when I was a child, my parents brought a black girl (child) from the interior of the state to work at home — to help with the baby, my sister — and also to study in the big city. This was common in those days. Today, I wonder how it was so simple, to take a black child from her home to live the homes of strangers.

Q: Did you notice that a hierarchical relationship (of power) occurred between you and the black patient?

A: Yes, often. For a long time, I worked mostly with children. I didn’t notice it with the children, but I did with the parents, and it was very frequent. I had to be careful about what I said, so as not to increase their discomfort. Theirs was a place of someone who has less and can do less. I tried to get them out of this place so that they could access their creativity.

According to ^{Bento (2002)}, The narcissistic pact of whiteness refers to a silent pact of support and strengthening of equals. It is a feeling of unconscious reciprocity, which ends up preserving the maintenance of privileges and interests of white people. And, because it is unconscious (what is morally repudiated we keep in the shadows), it acts so decisively in maintaining the myth of racial democracy. What I want to point out is that, when questioned, white people say they are not racist, despite recognizing racism as a serious social problem.

According to ^{Watkins (2008}, p. 114), this lack of awareness about one’s own feelings, modulated by the effect of racism, is harmful not only to black people who are constant victims of structural racism, but also to white people, who develop symptoms/ego defense mechanisms to keep unconscious reflections that would be very painful.

“In my work over the last fourteen years, the first and most important aspect that draws attention in debates, research, and the implementation of institutional programs to combat inequalities is the silence, omission, or distortion surrounding the place that white people have occupied and still occupy in Brazilian racial relations. The lack of reflection on the role of white people in racial inequalities is a way of persistently reiterating that racial inequalities in Brazil are a problem that affect exclusively black people, since only black people are studied, dissected, and problematized.” (^{Bento, 2002}, p. 26)

In this interview, I would like to explore the association made by the analyst — the black patient reminded her of a childhood memory: a black child taken into her home to help with household chores. She reflects: “Today I wonder how it was so simple, to take a black child out of her home to work and study in the homes of strangers.

We repress these memories (racist experiences that we have witnessed throughout our lives).

“It is clear that white people do not hold secret meetings at five in the morning to define how they will maintain their privileges and exclude black people. But it is as if this were the case: the forms of exclusion and maintenance of privileges in the most different types of institutions are similar and systematically denied and silenced. This pact of whiteness has a narcissistic component of self-preservation, as if the ‘different’ threatened the ‘normal’, the ‘universal’. This feeling of threat and fear is at the heart of prejudice, of the representation that is made of the other and of the way we react to it.” (^{Bento, 2022}, p. 18)

These privileges are more evident in educational institutions and large companies, where leadership is mostly made up of white people, and selection processes will always be biased towards race, usually camouflaged by the “myth of meritocracy”. In analytical psychology institutes, for example, black candidates for analysts are very rare. In our conversations, we often tell stories about our lives and the difficulties we faced before we managed to get into a training institution. But no one would acknowledge the fact that if white people occupy these positions, it is because the whiteness of their skin has also granted them privileges that the vast majority of black people do not have.

Wouldn’t being affiliated with a training institution where 98% of the analysts are white, in a country where 53% of the population is black/brown, allow us to conclude that the institution is racialized (in some way, it facilitates the entry of white people)? And isn’t it a privilege that this condition is considered normal and never questioned?

Could the practice of the white analyst be oblivious to social injustices?

Countertransference of power

According to Stein, “Power — by which I mean the need or desire to have control — is never absent from human relationships, and the therapeutic relationship between analyst and patient is no exception.” (Stein, 2021, p. 99). It is the need (perceived subtly or strongly in sessions) for the analyst to take control of the situation, to direct the patient. This need for control must always be analyzed, understanding why it happened and perceiving the dynamics behind it.

Stein mentions Guggenbuhl -Craig ‘s work:

“(...) when power becomes paramount in the helping situation, an archetypal unit is split into two parts: the ‘lesser’ and the ‘greater’, the ‘sick patient’ and the ‘healthy doctor’, the ‘poor client’ and the ‘established professional’, the ‘ignorant student’ and the ‘wise teacher’, among others. (...) And the result of this split is emotional distancing: analyst and patient become very ‘different’ and their relationship becomes colored by this feeling of otherness.” (Stein, 2021, p. 99)

And when racial complexes are activated during the analysis, this power dynamic tends to establish itself. In my experience as an analyst of white people, it comes as this feeling of “wanting to do more”. Once again, the identification of this pattern and recognition of its reasons by the analyst will be essential to reestablish a dynamic of cooperation (the doing of the soul).

Furthermore, structural racism is present in educational institutions. Not recognizing or acting proactively is to consent to and to validate a structure that everyone abhors, but in the face of which they remain silent.

“In a society where racism is present in everyday life, institutions that do not actively treat racial inequality as a problem will easily reproduce practices already considered normal throughout society.” (^{Almeida, 2018}, p. 65).

In analytical psychology, we understand that complexes do not simply disappear. However, it is possible to unmask them through awareness of our actions and emotions. Through self-reflection, we can learn to coexist with them more effectively, expanding our consciousness and cultivating a more integrated way of being in the world. Yet, as an institution, we still hesitate to truly engage with this powerful cultural complex—perhaps to avoid confronting feelings of guilt and shame.

And what are our institutional symptoms? Avoidance of discussions about racism in the Complete Works of CG Jung; Conformity with a white and elitist psychology; Lack of an agenda focused on racial literacy for candidates and analyst members; Absence of black analysts in Jungian training institutes; Absence of black analysts in board positions; Lack of practical actions for historical reparation: quotas in institutes? Relaxation of some training requirements?

Singer et al. (2004) highlight that the traumatic experience of slavery, together with the perpetuation of this trauma by structural racism in contemporary society, activated archetypal defenses at the group level: dissociation (emotional distancing) and projection (attribution to the other). These defenses are fundamental in maintaining this collective image (Singer et al., 2004).

As a training institution, I believe we are still dissociated from the collective trauma of racism. But by avoiding emotional engagement (and also anxiety, shame, and fear), we are also distancing ourselves from a cultural reality that has been shaping our psyches for centuries.

“Unfortunately, all human beings have an enormous capacity to live in states of denial, of dissociation, of forgetfulness and of identification with ideologies of the dominant culture. It can be extremely painful to develop an awareness criticism, unlearning what has been taught throughout life.” (^{Watkins, 2008}, p. 231)

Fanny Brewster discusses some possible actions for this reintegration. First, the need for us all to be open to dialogues about the collective trauma and transgenerational psychic pain that shakes us daily (black and white); second, not to accept silence. The author also describes her work as a group moderator with white analysts, where the purpose of the meetings is to discuss and try to uncover racism in the analysts’ daily lives. These meetings always arouse feelings of anger and guilt in the group (Brewster, 2020).

“(...) The beauty of analytical psychology is that it often provides us with the answer to our suffering. The medicine is in the poison. Jungian psychology is a psychology of discovery. And the path is often presented in the form of a labyrinth and, of course, it will never be easy. Accepting this fact and living the experiences fully, recognizing not only the suffering but also the joys of living, brings us ever more hope.” (Brewster, 2020, p. 151)